It’s the scripting that’s the problem. Her mewling over Arthas is both unbecoming and it makes her look like she doesn’t remember anything from before they rode up to Stratholme, way back when. Just rewriting her script (including the quest text in HoR) would be sufficient.

Of course, I also thought calling her “Miss” Jaina Proudmoore in War3 was weird and out of step with anyone under the age of 50, too.

(Incidentally, this very issue is going to be the subject, sort of, of this week’s Flinthammer Hall post, which has been delayed due to toddler, but which should be going up soonish.)

Or am I the only one who was surprised Bolvar was still alive? (I mean from when mmo-champ spoiled it, per se.)

I am relying on my memory of what occurred in WC3, but by the end of the original scenarios, Jania should be used to the horrific slaughter brought on by the Scourge. By the end game, we see exactly what the scourge can do. Through Wrath, we have all witnessed how terrifying and powerful the Lich King is. At Icecrown, at the seat of his power, we should expect worse. Hell, Bricu saw it coming. Knowing this, I still have a hard time believing that she couldn’t have anticipated the devastating attacks by Tyrannus and Sindragosa.

I don’t think she had illusions about people dying in general; that’s what happens when you storm the enemy’s gates.

Though — and this is probably the voice actress’ inflection, not necessarily the way it’s intended — I don’t know if I trust how sorry she really is in those lines. I can’t decide if it sounds truly remorseful or more like, “Yeah, sorry, but you were expendable so I can go see my prince.” Thinking along those lines, I almost wish it was intended in the second way. While it might not put Jaina squarely in the villain category, it would be an interesting twist: once upon a time, Arthas burned his peoples’ ships so they’d have to stay in Northrend so he could attain his goals. If Jaina were knowingly, intentionally, dragging people along as fodder so she could attain her goal of seeing him again… imagine that parallel.

That’s a lot of what bothers me about it. She does something reckless, gets a lot more people killed than she’d intended, then we’re supposed to just accept her “I’m sorry, I didn’t know,” and move on. In my rose-colored world, there will somewhere be a cut scene of Jaina atoning for it somehow, of her doing something that will help destroy him or keep the Scourge under control once he’s dead.

Dulcea, my answer to your “what if there’d been something in his eyes” is “hrmmm.”

Not very helpful, is it? XD

On the one hand, it might lessen the annoyance a bit. Right now, we walk out of there going, “Yeah, we just wasted a bunch of peoples’ lives because you’re sentimental.” I mean, we DO learn something important there, from Uther, about what will happen to the Scourge if the Lich King dies. But as for learning whether there’s a salvageable piece of Arthas inside that spiky helmet, we’ve known the answer to that since we hung out in the Cathedral with Tirion. So, to a point, her seeing some bit of Arthas in him might make it a little bit better.

But on the other hand, from a storytelling perspective, that would annoy me, too (I know, I’m hard to please.) I think mostly because it follows the cliche: no one can get through to the tormented prince except for the pretty lady who’s always been steadfast. Bleh.

What I’d rather have seen — and even this is probably pretty vanilla — is some kind of epiphany on Jaina’s part either at the end of the Pit of Saron or while she’s talking to Uther. She has a mini-revelation with Uther there, but she still wants to go see for herself, running after Arthas to let the rest of us fight with his lackeys (“You won’t deny me this Arthas. I must know! I must find out!”) She just takes off, doesn’t even say anything to the people she’s brought in with her. Even if she ran after him to go kick his ass, I’d be happier, but she admits at the end that she should’ve listened to Uther and wanted to look in his eyes one last time.

Maybe better than her going all VENGEANCE RAWR after talking to Uther, it would have made more sense for her to just say “I’m going to go hold his attention. You take care of these guys and come find me after, then we’ll get the hell out of here.” THEN, when the airships get there, it’d be nice to hear some kind of emotion and dialogue out of her that isn’t just “qq, I just figured out what everyone else has been telling me all along.” (She does call him a monster during the retreat, but I dunno, I can think of some stronger phrases that’d still be PG-13…)

Right now at the end, it’s the same Jaina from the book. She doesn’t get upset, she doesn’t get mad, she just apologizes for the dead in her mopey voice. Show me the Jaina of WC3, who gets chased by an ogre and handles it herself, thrilled by her own power. Hell, show me the Jaina from the early chapters of Arthas, where she had at least some kind of personality and independent thought, even though, unfortunately, most of it was for the benefit of Arthas’ character development.

I want to see her affected by all that’s happened, and so far, I’m not sold on it. I don’t need a tantrum or theatrical weeping. She can be even-keeled even in anger, if that’s the way the character is — I’ve seen several people play characters that can be angry/upset and still speak to you in a deadly calm voice and play it well. (I’d argue that Davien’s like that, and depending on the situation, Threnn, but I’ll let people who’ve RP’d with me confirm or refute that.)

I’m hopeful along with you, Dulcea, though I admit my faith has been shaken.

Jania had *potential* to do so much more than just be Arthas’ love sick fan girl.

“I just had to look into his eyes one more time and see…” Really? Talking to Uther’s GHOST isn’t enough for you? With each run of the ICC Trio, I get more and more disgusted at this vapid character.

Jania, flat out, deserved better.

I think the Devs could fix it, but I am not holding my breath.

Its a stretch I know, but…I’m really hopeful. Really really hopeful. Mostly? Due to the excitement on the developers faces at Blizzcon, but *crosses fingers* Lets not 100% write her off…yet.

I’m not surprised that female characters are often plot devices, but I am continually disappointed by it. In this case, with Jaina’s pre-WotLK actions, I expected better from the writers and was even more let down.

My real issue here is that it would have been possible to do this dating backstory in a way that contributed to both exposing Arthas’ character and made sense for Jaina as one of those stupid things we all did when we were teenagers. Blizzard chose not to do that, and I believe that was a mistake.

Secondly, I’ve been noticing and observing this for almost twenty years now. I’m not saying that to discredit anyone else’s experience or be a know-it-all- just in my experience it always, always comes back to the boys, no matter how strong the female character is. I have yet to see one whose life was NOT defined almost entirely by male relationship(s) or male character(s). That is kind of a definition of being a plot device. As a real-life woman my life has male relationships that have influenced it, but my life is not *about* those relationships.

I don’t think this is right, and I really don’t need to be lectured on it. The only thing I find so astounding, and what I was trying to convey using sarcasm in my post, is that so many people still find it so surprising.