Audience Participation Time!
Point the first: if you’re not reading Bricu’s thread, “Disappointment,” which he stealth-posted on Saturday, you’re missing out. Go on over and join the discussion of Jaina Proudmoore v. 2.0.
Stemming from a few of the comments there about the relative scarcity of strong female characters in fantasy, I thought this would be a good spot for you lot to share your recommendations for books, movies, games and tv shows that feature women who aren’t just supporting cast for the male protagonist.
Tarquin got us started off with George R.R. Martin’s A Song of Ice and Fire, Joe Abercrombie’s The First Law Trilogy (and I’ll add in his new book, Best Served Cold), and Robin Hobb’s Farseer Trilogy.
Itanya gave us Curse of the Azure Blade.
I’m going to throw in Frannie Goldsmith from The Stand and Susannah from The Dark Tower series. I know, Stephen King’s not exactly fantasy, but I won’t tell if you won’t (and the Dark Tower books I’d argue are fantasy.) Pamela Freeman’s The Castings Trilogy (Blood Ties, Deep Water, and Full Circle) have a stellar cast of characters who challenge stereotypes without bashing you off the head with it.
For tv series, there’s Firefly and Battlestar Galactica, just to start.
And here’s what I want you to remember: “strong female character” doesn’t have to mean ass-kicking super warrior. I know Rashona has expressed frustration several times when female characters who like to cook and sew get dismissed out of hand, and she’s right for that.
So, have at it! Add to my (and I’m sure several others’ here…) never-ending piles of books to read and things to watch!
Filed in Books,Fiction,Open Thread 18 Comments so far
Linedan on 21 Dec 2009 at 5:24 pm #
It’s not exactly high fantasy, but it is one of Rashona’s favorites–Cordelia Naismith Vorkosigan in Lois McMaster Bujold’s Miles Vorkosigan series, especially in what I think are the first two books of the set(The Warrior’s Apprentice and Barrayar). She is by no means an ass-kicking super warrior, but threaten her extended family, and she gets medieval (albeit by proxy sometimes). The focus shifts away from her once Miles grows up in the later books, but still, Cordelia’s pretty awesome.
Pike on 21 Dec 2009 at 5:29 pm #
Two I can think of off the top of my head are the His Dark Materials novel series… and Ellen Ripley in the Aliens movies. <3 those movies…
Bricu on 21 Dec 2009 at 5:31 pm #
Sydney Bristow, from Alias, is a strong female character. There were times she did get a bit too wishy-washy; however, I think she always went through with the difficult choices. (not really fantasy, but whatever)
I want to say Abigail Bartlett, from the West Wing, but on closer examination, she seems to be more of a strong foil for Jed. I seem to remember an episode featuring her, but for the life of me, I can’t remember it completely. (a strong, really liberal president is my fantasy, so shut up)
Zoe, from Firefly. (SciFi)
Thessaly, from The Sandman (not Bill Willingham’s stupid take on her) (modern fantasy)
My memory of Ripley, from Alien, Aliens and Alien 3 (there is no such movie as Alien: Resurrection).
Gwen Cooper, from Torchwood
Donna Noble, from Doctor Who
Suzanna aka Stardancerelf on 21 Dec 2009 at 5:35 pm #
The problem with “strong female” characters in television/film is that the female is never the authority. There is usually a male author (Castle), psychic (Mentalist), police chief (CSI), or some other position over her who “really” solves the cases and makes the official decisions. However, the best independently strong females was Sarah Connor in the “Sarah Connor Chronicles” and Eowynn in “Return of the King.” Unfortunately, Eowynn was a supporting role.
I don’t think I necessarily agree with the Battle Star Galactica unless we are referring to President Laura Roslin. She was a powerful character both in position and inward being.
I also would like to mention the strength of female roles lately in the series “Heroes.” It seems to me that the characters, their strength, powers, and roles, do not rely on race, creed, or gender.
I think it bears mentioning that a strong female character was presented in the movie “Julie and Julia” about Julia Child, a pseudo-documentary about two women sharing a love for cooking. The film demonstrate how incredible forward thinking and strong Julia Child was.
Yva on 21 Dec 2009 at 6:05 pm #
For Rashona? The domestic goddess strong character that comes to mind is Ruth Fisher from Six Feet Under. Completely AMAZING character. Not a fantasy setting, but . . . you can totally kick ass and make bread. Ruth proves it.
Sean Riley on 21 Dec 2009 at 6:41 pm #
First off, for World of Warcraft I recommend Discworld. Why? Because both are comic fantasy universes (granted, WoW flies into the epic more often, but both do so on occasion) and Discworld is LOADED with strong female characters.
So let’s run through the awesome female characters in Discworld. Susan Sto Helit; prim and proper under extreme pressure as only someone who knows she can kill everyone in the room can be. Granny Weatherwax, a feared old witch whose greatest trick is knowing how everyone else’s heads work better than they do. Nanny Ogg, the kind of old woman who drinks stout, has about a dozen kids, and a million memories of a life lived by her own rules and nobody else’s. Sgt. Angua, a werewolf working with the police of Ankh-Morpork, whose advantages of smell and instinct are overpowered by her looks having criminals lining up to be arrested by her. And of course, Tiffany Aching, a teenage girl growing up into becoming a true witch.
Seriously, read any of the books for the most part. Pratchett has always had a gift for writing strong female characters, who are (for the most part) delightfully cynical, worldly and smart. (I forgot to mention Adora Belle Dearheart, a woman with a very inaccurate name, and whom would make a _wonderful_ model for a WoW character.)
I’d also put up a hand for Jennifer Government, of the book of the same title, who is a great model for an ‘action mom’ sort of character.
Itanya Blade on 21 Dec 2009 at 8:53 pm #
The Hawk and Fisher stories by Simon Green. I recommend starting with Blue Moon Rising. Sorry, Rashona, but the princess in this slightly off kilter fairy tale is a bit quick with a right hook. Technically, the prince in the story is the main protagonist, but Simon Green makes it clear that the princess is more than window dressing from the very start.
Sorcha on 21 Dec 2009 at 9:58 pm #
Cordelia Naismith, for sure. I think one of my favorite scenes in all the science fiction I’ve ever read is when Pyotr confronts her after her little trip to the city and asks here where she’s been. She says “Shopping. Want to see what I got?” I won’t spoil it by saying what happens next, but it was amazing.
But even moreso, Ista in Paladin of Souls by the same author. She’s not only an amazingly strong character, she’s a post-menopausal amazing character. This is possibly my favorite fantasy book of all time.
I’d say Honor Harrington, except that I think her relationships with men do form too much of her character arc. Some of the other women in those books are probably better examples, such as Mike Henke and Eloise Pritchart, and even Abigail Hearns (especially in the short story In the Service of the Sword).
And then there is Alanna of Trebond in Tamora Pierce’s Song of the Lioness Quartet. I don’t like her later books as much, but those four just rock.
Kris Longknife in the series of the same name by Mike Shepherd.
Jamisia in This Alien Shore by C. S. Friedman.
I’ll stop now.
Kyraine on 21 Dec 2009 at 10:42 pm #
Jim Butcher’s the Dresden files has some good strong female characters in it. And some honest ones too. Charity is one I think of who fits the bill for not being afraid to cook and sew (and make chainmail). She’s a wife and mother, and she’s also willing to do anything to protect her family. I like characters, male and female, who aren’t afraid to put their money where their mouth is. Yes, Dresden is urban fantasy and campy as hell. But it’s a series that I’ve enjoyed thoroughly, because he can make me laugh and his characters are likable.
And another one I like: Lynn Flewelling’s the Oracle’s Queen trilogy has a female protagonist who does have to become a ruler.
Zhire on 22 Dec 2009 at 3:10 am #
How about the Dragon Riders of Pern books? there’s a few women in those who are definitely kick ass…and not in just the ‘warrior’ way.
Hammaryn on 22 Dec 2009 at 4:42 am #
Kate Elliott’s books usually star strong female characters. Her most recent series, Spirit Gate, is a fantastic read to boot.
Kel on 22 Dec 2009 at 4:51 am #
Mercedes Lackey’s Valdemar series. In particular the last few (chronologically speaking). Queen Selenay is amazing, and Talia (main character of the ‘Arrows of the Queen’ trilogy) has become one of my absolute favorites as far as fantasy characters. They do have their flaws, but they are very strong characters, with awesome personalities.
She also has a trilogy (kind of, the third book is more of a ‘tales about..’ sort) about 2 female mercenaries, The Oathbound, Oathbreakers, and Oathblood. They are set in the Valdemar universe, but in a different country than Valdemar. By The Sword is about another female merc, Kerowyn, who is another one of my favorites.
And I could go on for pages on these books, Mercedes Lackey is my favorite fantasy author. It doesn’t hurt that I am a horse nut, and the horse-like, super-intelligent Companions are major characters in her books as well. (And no, no ‘Invincable’s here)
Seriously, if you like fantasy, and you have not read any of Lackey’s books, you are missing out on some amazing stuff.
ZombiePirate on 22 Dec 2009 at 5:52 am #
Red Sonja from Robert E. Howard’s books (and the film) athough I think she’d fall into the ass-kicking category. There’s also a lot of strong female characters in the Marvel universe, take your pick of half the X-men for a start.
Rashona on 22 Dec 2009 at 3:32 pm #
@Pill:
*cackle* I adore the Blue Moon books (“Where’d you get the dragon?” “I rescued him from a princess.” *bap!*) , and am proud of myself for figuring out the Hawk&Fisher connection a few books into the series. I don’t *dis*like punch-throwing warrior women AT ALL – hell, I love Simon Green and he hardly ever writes any other KIND of woman – I just think they’ve become too easy to write. It annoys me that so many fantasy novels seem to think Feisty McPlayswithswords is the default female POV, as if a woman’s only worthy of sympathy if she wants to be one of the boys. Even when it’s *unrealistic as all hell* for the society being written about.
In addition to the Farseer books, I’d recommend Robin Hobb’s Liveship Traders (the middle set in a trilogy of trilogies). People seem to like them less than the Farseer books which bracket them, but for some reason they’re my favorites. ANYway, one of the things I like is the portrayal of women in the main family – several of different ages, and almost all of them demonstrating their own strength. One iron-willed matriarch who knows which strings to pull, one excessively-devoted woman who still keeps it together while her family’s going through hell, one Action Girl, and one spoiled-brat teenager who’s a cross between Scarlett O’Hara and Catherine the Great. Not to mention a whore with a heart of titanium (much more useful than a heart of gold) as an awesome secondary character. (Robin Hobb also writes as Megan Lindholm. I recommend anything of hers except for her blog.)
And yeah, I love Ista in Bujold’s books, and not surprisingly have a sneaking fondness for Fawn in the recent “Sharing Knife” series. Mercedes Lackey is enjoyable, but more of a comfort read for me – I don’t expect stunning originality, just a fun few hours.
Sadly, nobody (including me, most of the time) is willing to slog through the writing style, but Tolkien’s got some *awesome* female character in the Silmarillion. Galadriel? Blacksmithing, rebellion-leading, refugee-herding apostate. Luthien got locked in a tower by her overprotective father, magicked herself up a rope and cloak of invisibility, and set off to rescue her lover. That being the MIDpoint of a story where she ends up besting Sauron’s *boss* and convincing the local deities to break a bunch of unbreakable laws.
Sharyn McCrumb writes mystery, but I’m very fond of the police dispatcher in her Appalachian Ballads series, who’s trying to advance her career purely because she *wants to do a better job*, not for squishy relationship reasons. She’s in a rocky relationship, knows it’s rocky, and has a very pragmatic but believable approach, trying to ensure her protection while seeing if the relationship is worth preserving. McCrumb writes awesome female characters in general.
Random thoughts – I’m rarely impressed with authors who have clearly set out to Write A Strong Female Character. The characters I start to believe in are the ones who have been written as *people* – taking GRRM as an example, I like and sympathize with Arya just fine, but Sansa, Cersei and Catelyn “feel” more solid to me. There’s a synchronicity between their motivations and their actions that seems more workable than Rebellious Fantasy Tomboy #1,578. Something that I see all too rarely in female fantasy characters is…ambition, I guess. Wanting to excel for its own sake is something I see fairly often in male characters, but rarely in fictional women, who seem to need some unrelated reason.
Itanya Blade on 22 Dec 2009 at 3:55 pm #
Well, take Del from the Sword Dancer books. Del’s a woman driven by the desire for revenge. Even though we see her nearly always from the view of the Sandtiger (who slowly begins to change his view of her throughout the series. And is he ever a poster child for self-deception)
But, Del is not really a being one of the boys characters. She’s driven and brittle.
I have to agree that the warrior women have become more common to write, but I think they continue to be difficult to write well.
Kate Elliot and Mercedes Lackey are casual reads for me. Their worlds are moderately complelling (Honestly, I think Elliot should focus less on her characters and more on the world they inhabit. And Lackey will forever be associated with ElfQuest Fanfiction for me.)
I actually prefer Danerys out of all of GRRMs characters. She begins the story so floundering and she is learning how to exercise power. I might also have a soft spot for slightly insane characters
tolomei on 22 Dec 2009 at 4:09 pm #
Paksenarrion, from Elizabeth Moon’s Deed of Paksenarrion. high fantasy, a sheepfarmer’s daughter becomes a mercenary and then a paladin. definitely an ass-kicker, though her strongest moments are not physically fighting but enduring hardships.
Itanya Blade on 22 Dec 2009 at 4:36 pm #
Paks’ transformation into a true paladin, by suffering the torments at the hands of the evil priests remains one of the most vivid things I have read.
But Paks is not your typical hero and Moon remains among my favorite artists for managing to portray a coming of age story through a woman’s eyes. One of the very few to do so. And she did it so well.
Rashona on 22 Dec 2009 at 10:33 pm #
Elizabeth Moon rocks, among other things, for condensing what could’ve been three chapters of angst into “I don’t want to get married!” “You’ll marry that boy or never darken my door again!” “‘kay, bye.”
More or less verbatim. I loved it.